How people get fooled

  • Here's an example of a beautiful working rottweiler in IPO. Big, strong, fast, shit tons of drive..........................but he's working 100% in prey. His vocalizations are a dead give away and his bouncy disposition on the decoy is also a strong sign of his mind set. This dog was high in trial for this "protection routine".


    The average dog person looks at this and thinks pups from him will be strong candidates for a PD and pays $3000+shippinng. They'll probably get a nice looking dog that can whale on a sleeve but the chances of getting the real deal are far and away.


    Working rottweiler breedinng is pushing so hard towards points in sport that defense is being pushed out of them in favour of drive and softer temperments-even Oliver Neubrand wrote about this in a article on modern breeding on rotts not too long ago.


    Another example of hype Pete-see....I dont just pick on the little dogs:cool2:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8AuRkaRMn8

  • geez the first decoy with the glasses in the re-attack whatever you called it did not even pretend to pretend to hit the dog, that could have cost the dog points.


    why is it hype if the dog is marketed consistent with what it is? it would then be fact not hype. has the dog been marketed as something it is not?


    interesting the mals, gsd & evidently the rott are all converging on the same dog in different colors, this may be evolution at play.


    as long as the best handlers, trainers, breeders and decoys choose IPO as their venue of choice as it seems to be then get used to it, the market always wins, and breeders breed for the market not the breed generally speaking ime.


    what breed do you think will be left unscathed?


    the dobe would be their as well but it seems it is a lost breed and can not recover, I would prefer to see the dobe doing well at IPO than what it currently is doing.


    this dog will leave his stamp on the breed for sure.


    you guys ever get the feeling of swimming against the tide, on a positive note, would you rather see this or have yr breed become the next dobe?


    not good I agree but you are comparing evil to evil, choose which one is the lesser.


    like I have always said, the type of dogs most of us gravitate toward will only be maintained by the small scale enthusiast.

  • Not only that, but a modicum of suspicion, trainability and just a smart dog that catches on fast.


    But really that video doesn't preclude the dog from having those qualities, they're just not demonstrated, which is often the comment I make. Such a video doesn't tell me anything about the dog's potential as a PD. Trained and raised differently who knows, but my gut feeling is probably not.


    BTW Brody, my rottweiler must be bred.

  • I can't wait to see what that young stud of yours produces Dan. You seem very keen on him and I trust your judgement. What's standing out with him in your view? By that I mean knowing that his conformation and size are stunning-what in between his ears has you fired up to breed him?


    Pete, you raise very good points about market dictating the breeding. It sucks because I know what's being overlooked in place of drive because the ADRK can't handle another working breed being superior in IPO trials (Mals and GSD specifically). IPO was not designed to showcase the strengths of the rottweiler and when they digest this and work on improving the breed as per the original standard they will produce much stronger specimens. With the rising popularity of dog sport internationally that day is not likely to ever get here.


    That being said there will always be a market for the ultimate protection dog and I do believe it still exhists in the rottweiler when selection is done by experts not only in the breed but dogs in general.

  • Brody, I was talking about my other male. I'll go into detail about him in another thread. But basically he's like a GSD in the body of a rott with the drive and power of a rott.

  • hehe yes he has. Apparently I need a thicker suit :)


    I'll put up a vid as soon as I can. I've been slacking off on the obedience.. The beauty of it is he warmed up to me and doesn't growl at me any more. I'm happy with him now. He's not as handsome as my young male but everything else makes up for it. I'm starting to believe that the large head/big bone phenotype may mean a departure from some working qualities. You know the GSD folks scorn the rottweiler and call it a "cow dog". Well it's awesome to have a rott that catches on fast in obedience training like a GSD, and still have the power and drive. GSD are so easy to train.

  • Wow I can tell there is not a lot of Dobe fans in the forum uh>? :angry5:


    So am not an expert but I can understand how IPO trials do not reflect the dogs potential for PD, I can also tell this one did not made the jump from prey to defense at any time -_-!


    Hopefully my girl will help in restoring the Dobe's reputation :thumbsup2:

  • Sergio, do not take the comments as directed at you or your dog.


    Dobe are a beautiful breed they were the real thing for sure. it is not the breed's fault how people chose to breed them as fashion statements.


    there are still some great dobes, hopefully the right people will get control of the breed and bring back good health and temperament.


    I hope so.

  • Actually I like a good dobe. They fire up fast and crazy. Trainability and stability is high. A tough one has a stare that will make a bad guy change his mind. And some can have decent size and a huge mouth. Problem is where you find these dogs today.

  • Hey Dan,


    Ya, when people take a bite from a good rott in a suit it usually turns into a "you need a new suit" dicscussion:) Good on Chad for being game-you are after all working his white beast for him;)


    Cool to hear about your male-funny how the ugly ones seem to always have what's needed everywhere else......my last male had those damn folded over bat ears but he literally had mal drive which made it so easy to do ANYTHING training related so I get what you mean by GSD qualities for sure. It's so cool when you see it come out in them-glad he stopped grumbling at you too-lol.


    Sergio-I'm a fan of all good working dogs. If that dog happens to be a doberman then all the better. I did actually take a good bite from a nice young male last summer and he surprised the shit out of me-I thought hed be a pussy and WHAM! Crushed my wrist in a soft sleeve and I barely slipped the damn thing off so I know there's still a few decent one's out there. For your sake let's hope your girl is in his lineage.

  • Kinda sad about the Dobe. Had one when I was young and have been looking all over to find another one that would be a good PPD, but really all I can find is a handful breeders that could even produce one that could be good for ring sports. I hate to say it but unless a needle in a haystack comes up I've all but abandoned the breed and I'm looking to the Rott. You guys/this forum have been a wealth of knowledge and although I don't post much, I've been here back in the shadows reading every post. I've talked to Dan personally over the phone and really like where he's going with his Rotts. Can't wait until he's got a litter available.