interesting, thanks for sharing.
I would have liked to see more about pedigrees, line structures and working attributes toward the second half of the clip instead of a generic puppy raising tutorial.
I did like the statement about reducing stress to the new puppy for the first few days by keeping it relatively confined on it's turf and don't be picking it up and fussing over it.
most modern trainers do the exact opposite treat the puppy like a new human baby and take it everywhere passing it around to be molested by hundreds of strangers in strange places, so idiotic and stressful to a puppy.
This video did not speak to me (I watched until the puppy section). The video is full of obese dogs, I don't know how they expect anyone make a conclusion about the dog's confirmation with fat hiding what the dog actually looks like.
While the narration had some merit, there was no point in the video where I said Ah! now that's what I want to see in a rottweiler. So the narration and the video to me are completely disassociated. As such the narration seems more like wishful thinking than a true description of the breed.
I'm also tired of hearing about the origins of the rottweiler.. who cares! Any breed can be made up again today should it become necessary, as the qualities we look for are interspersed throughout dogdom. And the rottweiler of today is nothing like the practical dog of the past. The rottweiler has become a designer breed. I used to love the big head and thick body type. But now with all the overdone rottweilers it's become associated with dumbness, stubbornness, playfulness/lack of seriousness and lack of any practical traits for protection.
It's as if the "breeders" set forth.. big overdone head ✓ mahogany markings ✓ straight back ✓ tons of prey drive (in the case of those who think they're breeding "working" dogs ✓ done deal! No regard for simply a smart trainable dog with a degree of suspicion and reactivity. Simply put what all that amounts to is a breed that's become a product of the show ring. Sure there are exceptions here and there, but they're so hard to find, drowned out by the multitude of show dogs.
Bah to all that, I'll breed my own.
I'll agree that the puppy point is where I kind of checked out.
To Dan's point on the breeds origins being useless-I see it two ways. There are those, like yourself that take the FCI characteristics of the dog seriously when breeding and many out there that are not. It only takes three generations to wash a trait out of a breed. Just take a look at the average dog walking around with a spiked collar-most couldnt and wouldnt fight their way out of a paper bag.
I personally do like to know about the history of a breed to get an idea of what it's intended physical and mental make up is all about from an ideal perspective. Also, I just like history period which is why I may have liked this video-the start especially.
Oh and yes I also agree that many of those dogs were fat asses-lol.
Pete-there was a documentary that was about 30 minutes long on the rottweilers history in the US. I found it about four or five years ago but can't seem to find it on youtube anymore. It had a ton in it on lineage-especially some of the top stud dogs from the 70's and 80's. Have you seen/heard of it it Dan?
Regardless thanks for posting the video Brody.
It's just that seeing how my older male performs and comparing it to how I had/have to struggle to bring it out of other rottweilers, sometimes not being possible at all, I've come to be very doubtful of these breed descriptions/wishful thinking. Look at the rottweiler standard, it describes an "aloof" dog. When was the last time you saw an aloof rottweiler? In 25 years of dealing with rottweilers I've never seen one. Yes I've seen rotts aggressive to ALL strangers, but that's not aloof. In the end breed descriptions are just someone's opinion, and I have the experience to value my own opinion and that of others I know and trust more than some words on paper. It can take one man going after what he believes to establish a breed, case in point the dogo.
Very true Dan,
Imagine having the resources and time to perfect the rottweiler?:cool2:
I imagine it almost daily. Unfortunately even though I have the knowledge to do it, I don't have the temperament. I'm a one dog man, I find it hard to switch my devotion and adjust my attitude between my own dogs as is required. And I would feel guilty having the other dogs stuck in kennels. Having enough cash to pay others to do the more menial work involved in keeping dogs would counterbalance that to some degree, but still you have to work with all the dogs to really get to know them.
I'd go another route and try to make headway by strategically placing dogs in homes where the owners understand my goals. But imagine how difficult it is when so few people even understand what to look for in a dog, never mind finding those people, and locally. Actually it's one of the reasons the forum is important to me.
I truly believe that my older male could be the foundation for my line of rottweilers. Imagine the power and drive of a rott with the smarts, reactivity and trainability of a GSD. But, while he's a large and impressive pooch he is not typey, and how do you get past that with people that don't understand the working ability they're looking at.
Speaking of which Dan-have you come across a specimen that comes close to perfect in your opinion? What stood out to you the most about the dog?
Yes Niko, he was pretty much perfect.
Someone just got rid of him and he passed through a few hands until my friend got him. We could never find out what lines he came from. Roger knew the dog. Just a super stable dog. A good guard without getting "nasty". Natural protector. Very hard biter without any bite training. Bit the suit first time he saw it and hurt me through it. If you put pressure on him he came out even harder. Very strong bond with his owner. Unfortunately the owner didn't see the importance of trying to reproduce him. There were a few litters from him but no offspring that came close to the complete package, although all were good looking healthy dogs, a picture of one male below.
Interesting vid, am too a fan of dog history Brody
Now, am not much of a Rott person, even though they were supposedly used in the creation of Dobes -_-! but I think Dan has a point there, my old man used to call it ''Cell breeding'' and its a very effective way to breed traits on and off a bloodline.
You should give it more thought to that idea, placing litters in different homes with experienced owners and trading the selected offspring again :thumbsup2:
Where to find such owners\trainers? well I guess that's the whole purpose of this forum right?
I've met good people through the forum. Unfortunately (for me) they usually already have dogs, and I hate the idea of bumping a dog out of a home even to make way for one of mine.
Sergio, if you want to elaborate on "cell breeding"..
Yes, of course, its the same concept you were talking about in your first comment.
Once in a lifetime you will come across an OUTSTANDING dog, one that would be a shame to let fade in time, a true FLAWLESS specimen :cool2: ... So the Idea is simple you get the offspring of this dog and place each of them with experienced dog owners (this generally occurs inside a club). This way you can be in control of the environment of the whole litter and increase your chance of catching the one or two real HEIRS. The rest is usually sold as pets of average dogs after they turn 1 yr old
Whats in it for the others you might ask>? Well besides the free pups, eventually after 3 gens approx... you will have a properly established bloodline to which the first team of breeders will have access to.
Am sure you must have hear of this before, just with a different name xD!
Its simple selective breeding done at a larger scale and thus accelerating the process and accessing to a much bigger budget than if you tried to do it yourself.
I didn't really hear about it before. It's just logical for me to do it this way, being perhaps the only option.
I am not so interested in breeding to a great dog, at least in herder genetics, many great dogs are not great producers.
look at the dog's litter mates, are they also great, same genes?
I see a great dog I ignore it and look at it's family, everyone else rushes straight to the dog. more fool them.
don't breed to the dog, breed to it's family is an old rule of the bush.
I see your point Pete but whether you choose to breed the ''dog'' or you go with the family approach...
IMO ''cell breeding'' its a good way to jump start any breeding program you might choose :thumbsup2:
or go redneck style, there is no "breeder".
all dogs are heavily related, line bred separate families, except on the rare occasion an outcross is made.
a bunch of guys who know what they want in a dog say hey, that dog of yr's would go good over this female of mine, most likely same parents dofferent litters or common close acncestor, or line bred family to line bred family from common ancestors, I need some replacement pups so does joe down the road and jack over the hill. joe and jack say yeah I will take one of them each, should be a good combination. lets put them together.
sounds not technical, how do you think ALL the working breeds actually became breeds, certainly wasn't breeding to a standard and papers, that whole nonsense came looooong after.
Thanks for sharing about that dog Dan-the picture of his pup he sired is beautiful-how is it doing now? Must have been something else to work a dog like that. Too bad he got tossed around-seems totally unfair. What you desrcibe about trust in others is a big reason why I just can't get into breeding.
Pete-I know exactly what you're talking about. Great combinations produce great dogs but rarely do great dogs reproduce themselves. Unkas vom Hause Neubrand was one of the finest working specimens to come out of Germany in a decade. He was ADRK IPO champion, IFR champion (IPO as well), Multi V rated in show, built like a brick shit house and was known to have an extremely stable nature to him. Oliver let him go to the states for a reason-difficult to find a compatable bitch to improve the breed and when he could find a match the litter was not up to his standards. The top breeders dont waste time once they are let down. All of the other suckers out there pay 100k+ for a dog like that not realizing that they could find a stud for a quarter that cost to match up with their bitch and get better results.
I only have a little experience with dog breeding. But I have bred Hoss twice already and have several dates lined up for the new year. I just got the news today that the Vet confirmed she is prego with Hoss's first litter. Being that life can be tragic and Hoss will not live forever I'm really thinking about taking him to a Vet near my house where they can collect his seed and freeze it. It's not expensive about $100 a year to store 30 tubes that equals about 5 breedings. I would spend the time and find a great female to breed, produce a litter of pups and keep my favorite. Finding homes for the rest wouldn't be hard. I feel there would be a good chance of passing on his desired genetics.
Brody, the pic of the young dog is from 1998 so it's not likely he's alive. I attempted protection training with it past one year of age, as the owner (in the pic) wanted it. Super stable but no desire to keep up aggression for any reason.