How much credibility placed on puppy tests for pp work?

  • Hey guys I'm very curious as to how much weight you place on puppy tests done by breeders that are supposed to predict the puppies future potential for pp work? I am in the process of buying a puppy, and I have given the breeder the task of selecting a pup for me. At this point I have seen one video with puppies chasing and biting a rag. In the video the breeder praises the two smallest female pups in the litter for being the most tenacious on the rag. The video was made for myself and the buyer who has the second pick female. The largest female has already been selected by the breeder. There are four females available, and I have the third pick. In the ten minute video the two smallest females do seem to be very active on the rag. However, isn't it possibly that the large brindle pup that I have my eye on will display a greater interest in the activity the next time on the rag? She was on the rag part of the time, and she did chase the kid around that had the rag. Anyway... I've asked the breeder to take a short video of just the females that are available. That's a reasonable request isn't it?

    It's just a lot of money to end up with the smallest puppy in the whole litter.

  • The judgment of puppys is a tricky subject... Leeburg talks alot of this and he also has more than one type of test in his video ''Bite Training for Puppies'' if you can get your hands on a copy

    On the other hand if you read Koehler youll see that testing is something reserved for older dogs and with a pup the only ''real'' way of telling how much potential it has is by looking at its bloodline (parents and siblings)

    As for the vid, there is ONE thing I dont like about videos for the purpose of judging a dogs temper
    1.- The owner gets to choose what he wants to be on the vid

    At the end of the day, even if your pup is the biggest, most active and bold of the litter, there is no guarantee it will grow the same way and end up as a great PPD so its a matter of luck really

    Hope this was helpfull :thumbsup2:

  • Hey Harrison,

    When it comes down to it the most important thing is the parents, specifically the mother who imprints her temperment and character onto the puppies. A sharp mother will produce sharp pups ect. ect.

    If the parents are proven biting dogs with stable nerves chances are, regardless of tests, you'll have the potential in the dog. Most people getting into PD's are either inexperienced or uneducated so the pup is either wasted or washed out by the time comes for it to really perform.

    My point: Strong dogs for parents=strong potential in the pups regardless of tests. Weak parents=weak pups regardless of tests.

  • Hey guys after reading your post I will likely just pick the best looking pup. You know I noticed that the breeder picked the biggest male and female, so I'll I think I'll follow his lead and chose the next biggest pup. Thanks guys! This web cite is great!

  • What do the sire and dam weigh? I find it strange Lee doesn't provide the height and weight of any of his dogs on the website.

    Picking a pup is recognizing behaviors that I know will translate into more pronounced behaviors in the mature dog. Most of the time for me it's a process of elimination when I recognize undesirable traits, as opposed to seeing an individual pup and knowing it's going to be awesome. For example watching the video I can say for sure I would not pick the female pup that acted submissive when it came to Lee. This behavior will only become more pronounced as it grows, and I don't like to own a dog that behaves like that, it's too soft for me. But another person might like it just fine.

    If I knew a buyer would come to me to pick up a pup, depending on how busy I am I may not make a special video. But considering what you're paying for this pup and that you are having it shipped to you, I think it's very reasonable to ask for a similar video of just the 4 females.

  • I only use puppy tests to rule things out and I apply them to the whole litter at once.

    the smallest pup does not mean it will be the smallest adult, if it were that simple.

  • Well the breeder has assured me that the brindle pup I had my eye on is a good candidate for pp work and has provided me with a written guarantee that allows me to exchange the pup should she wash out of the training. Dan, I have a vague memory of reading in a post somewhere that the sire, Preacher Man, weighs 85lbs. Not sure why he doesn't post it at his website, though. Incidentally, the breeder, Lee Robisnon, was a pleasure to do business with. He answered all of my many emails and even provided me with a few tips on pp training. Anyway... The puppy will be here in a few days... Man, I feel like a kid waiting for Christmas.

  • Lets keep in mind that Bigger isnt always better, there are few situations where an 80lb dog will be better than a 60lb dog, your main concern should be if the dog has the ''nerves'' for the job

    This is one of the main reasons behind the Malinois shepherd success in the PSD world. A 60-70lb dog with the right drive will perform (in most scenarios) just as good as any other dog

    Now, as stated before, there are few justifications for the use of bigger dogs. Here are some that I could think of:
    1. Living in a extremly dangerous zone where you want a ''deterrent'' dog
    2. Living in a place with wild life roaming arround (cougars, wolfs, etc)
    3. Plant security dog (This is more of a personal opinion)

    PD: Size is as size does

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Sergio: Forgot the PD ().

  • I agree but to be accurate on your point Sergio the malinois is used in PSD and military work because it is the best dog suited for PSD and miitary work based on its size, drive, and inteliigence.

    A malinois is not best suited for estate or property protection based on it's physical size and level of drive. A high drive mal would be bored out of its mind living in a family environment where it gets little to no stimulation. Most good mal breeders will not sell their dogs to families-only into working dog homes. A mastiff type with strong territory and fight drive is much more suited for a task in pure protection purposes.