Testing your future PPD

  • I think we are going in circles, the purpose of the post was to establish the importance of testing a dog and up to now we've all agreed on that...

    How about some common ground?

    1.- Testing, whether at the beginning or at the initial fases (3rd day if you may), IS important

    2.- How you test the dog is a personal choice, there is no foolproof method

    3.- Dogs that fail the chosen test should be excluded

    These we can all agree upon, right?

    About the bite program, well that's another topic and I would love to discuss individual training programs but it should be done in another thread to avoid confusing new members or visitors.

  • We have started with dogs as young as 10 months old and they have turned out to be fantastic patrol dogs when finished.

    Starting at 10 months with a fast maturing mal is fine. But it doesn't mean the training needs to be any different than when starting with an older dog.

  • We do modify our testing and training based on the age, maturity and the individual dog. I start young dogs a little slower, but we end up at the same place in the time frame. We just adjust the training to fit the dog.

    Even a precocious Malinois or German Shepherd at 10 months is still a very young dog. I do take that into account and watch the dog and the stress level it goes through. Most 10 month old dogs deep down are really not as mature as an 18 month dog and handle stress differently, even the high drive Malinois.

  • Sergio I do the Koehler test with a little adaption. As I am testing a PSD after the quarry jumps out in the mask with a gun while approaching his location, he fires 2 to 3 shots screams quickly then takes off running. I immediately give the command stop em wait a second for the dog to recover and begin running after the quarry. Most time the dog goes right along eventually taking the lead following as quickly as I will let him. After a short chase I have the quarry turn and disappear to the left or right as we turn in the opposite direction. I stop and immediately praise the dog.

    This test is done only if the prospect has passed all other tests first.

  • How does the apprentice learn the real shit if it is locked in a vehicle. If the situation is clear, what's to learn? If the situation goes to hell you have a handler in control of two dogs, one being an apprentice.

    Sounds like a cluster fuk waiting to happen, so many scenarios I cringe to think about.

    Cluster fuk happens if you do not know what you are doing. The point of apprentice dog is to bring the dog into situations which are charged by atmosphere of real situation which is never reproducible in scenario training. . Nowhere have I said that the one handler handles 2 dogs nor is locked up in the vehicle. The apprentice dog is used after the scenario is evaluated and the handler decide that the dog is ready for it. And also usually if apprentice dog is used there is a second dog (senior dog) handled by second handler. at the same time as a back up.
    In Czechoslovak Border patrol there were 2 handlers with 2 dogs on patrol. One senior dog and one apprentice dog. Apprentice dogs were taken on patrol at 8 - 12 months. That way the apprentice dog goes through real life scenarios and draws drive and support from the senior dog and does it in real situation which is n\impossible to reproduce in training. It is really very useful way to introduce the dog without worrying how the dog apprentice dog is going to do in first real scenario which with today type of training is always serious concern.
    You can look at it as a group agitation in real life scenario.

  • I have to disagree with your overall assessment. Example my 3 street dogs prior to my retirement were all donations each tested over a 3 day period. #1 K-9 Kanto Vom Wolfsgehege, over 100 captures, over 50 track captures, 38 evidence finds, credited with saving my life. #2 K-9 Rico, 78 captures, 35 track captures, 26 evidence finds same city. #3 K-9 Grizzly 84 captures, 44 track captures, 20 evidence finds.

    As I stated before I am able to weed out any dog who does not meet the minimum criteria in the time period. I don't have the time nor do I care for breeding or additional training or testing of dogs to ensure they will make the cut. I think the results with my previous partners and many others I have procured and trained over the decades did and are doing quite well.

    The point I am making is not that "3 days test" is not good test. The point I am making is that 3 day test often eliminates good or even better dogs then dogs selected.
    The time allocated to training and selection of the dog is in my experience often insufficient due to lack of knowledge of superior officer, lack of time and money and personnel.
    That does not mean that there is not better way then time stressed a
    approach forces many depts to select and train dog. That is all I am saying.

  • IMO for police service starting with a puppy prospect is not cost effective, unless as part of a foster home program. For law enforcement I also don't see the point of training before a year old. It takes just a couple of months of structured training to get the dog to a point where it can start working apprehension. Easier to just buy a green dog that's a good prospect, than raise a pup for a year and then possibly have it wash out. For a privately owned dog most people choose a pup + hope. Most of the time they get an average dog but end up keeping it anyways, because they don't really need (and can't handle) the level of protection they claimed to be looking for.

    I do not argue that what you are saying is the reality. Cost efficiency and doing it right are 2 opposing things. Czech Border payroll did it that way ( raising pups and training them from day 1) and they produced some of the best working dogs on the world. The pups which did not make it were sold to private homes and that partially payed for the program. Washing dog out at 1 year does not mean that you need to put the dog down. These are just 2 different approaches. In today society it may not be possible to test and train as it was done in past. However that does not mean that such approach is not viable and even better from dog training point of view. To argue that today approach is sufficient is true but "sufficient" is the operant word .