• As many of you know I worked and trained MWD's and PSD's for 38 years. I have a question for you PPD handlers and trainers. First I am by no means anywhere close to being an expert on PPD dogs, I base most of my knowledge off of Koehler and articles from the internet,so please hear me out.


    I have trained some dogs for females using exclusively Koehler to get their dogs to bark at the door, strange noises around the house, in vehicle, etc: when commanded to at suspicious characters, but would not go beyond that stage as I did not want the liability.


    So my question is a personal protection dog is used primarily to defend you correct? At least this is what I have assumed after studying the subject. Then why on many videos I have observed lately of personal protection dogs, I mostly see the PPD chasing down somebody in a bite suit 100 yards away, jumping out of a vehicle, chasing down and biting a person running away, jumping chain link fences to bite somebody on the other side. I have even observed a few of the dog clearing a residence and biting somebody until the handler comes inside to pull him off. Lastly I saw one video where the handler choked the dog off the quarry.


    Perhaps you could enlighten me on this. Not being sarcastic, I am purchasing my first dog since retiring last year and would like to train him in personal protection as I have already had one threat on my safety due to my previous occupation, and I no longer require a PSD. Thanks


    Phil

  • I think the answer is simple, people mostly put videos up to impress the general public. The running bite stuff looks more exciting to the general public.


    Its like watching two technical grapplers, the general public find it boring and want to see strikers.


    Biting someone off leash at 100m will never stand up in court as PP, its apprehension or offense. The public have no legal right for offensive action.


    Jmo.

  • I agree with Pete, the vids on youtube are just bait for "likes". Most of the time they don't serve a real purpose, just like IPO it is entertainment for the layman. Also a good marketing strategy...


    While you can't recondition a PPD to perform PSD tasks, am pretty sure you could easily turn a good PSD into a decent PPD Phil.


    I would recommend getting a good dog with proven parents and siblings (if you have to teach the dog to bark at strangers or weird noises then it is NOT a good dog), reading koehler again and training the old school way ;) You won't end up with a flashy dog like the IPO or the youtube ones but it WILL DO the job and that's what matters in the end. Now about the breed... well that's a whole different debate :D


    Phil, what do you mean with "threat to my safety" ?

  • To answer your question Phil from my perspective (if I were to make such a video); many dogs on their own or with a little training, can appear alert and serious showing defensive behavior behind a barrier. But this doesn't tell you at all whether the dog has the hardness to win a fight against a bad guy. Demonstrating the dog's desire to engage and fight away from the handler, is one way to showcase the dog and prove that it's well rounded. The reasons for making such a video may be to promote the dog for breeding, promote a business that trains dogs or sells trained dogs, or simply showing off one's achievements.


    That said, PD training doesn't really have a standard, which allows people to train to where their imagination will take them. Sometimes it really is far off from anything that could be expected in real life. It's shit when such training comes at the expense of training for real situations. Which I think is the deeper meaning of your question. For example a dog that's mostly prey driven whose "aggression" is situational to the training field, equipment and/or decoy. Such a dog can show great doing bitework, but most likely will not go into drive from a relaxed state if none of these triggers/stimuli are present. A LOT of "trainers" and most handlers don't even understand this concept. So they make videos of the dog doing the things everyone else is doing, taking for granted that the dog will perform in "simpler" situations. In reality these dogs are not "protecting" anything, they're expressing drive. The trick is to get the right drive connected with the right triggers, and make it all come together. By choosing a good prospect that's stable but alert, building a strong foundation in bitework done in the correct drive (how Koehler does it), and then making it all relevant to the dog's daily life/environment. To me the main difference between a PSD and a PD, is that the latter must go into drive on its own from a relaxed state. Everything else that's done with the handler in control of the situation, and by that I mean at minimum having the capacity to cue the dog through a voice command or a hand in the collar, is no different than PSD, because now the dog knows what's coming and the conditioned response takes over.


    There are very good Russian videos of dogs doing real life protection scenarios. The only thing I don't like about them is the dogs are too defensive, they don't unload into the bite. Makes you wonder if that's what it takes for a dog to let go of one bad guy and come back to the handler to deal with the 2nd bad guy.


    I think clearing the home is a great exercise. It really takes the dog to another level of intensity, and prepares it to deal with an intruder in the home. It's easier to set up than waiting inside the house with the dog for the decoy to "break in".

  • Look at it this way, zab judah got lots of big pay fights that he didn't deserve because he was flashy. GGG is proving to be one of the greatest fighters ever IMO and nobody has heard of him much outside the fans and he hardly gets fights. He is so tight and technical he looks boring to non-fans.


    Boys go watch a GGG clip and observe boxing perfection for all the eras. He is in our time and is the shit.

  • Look at it this way, zab judah got lots of big pay fights that he didn't deserve because he was flashy. GGG is proving to be one of the greatest fighters ever IMO and nobody has heard of him much outside the fans and he hardly gets fights. He is so tight and technical he looks boring to non-fans.


    Boys go watch a GGG clip and observe boxing perfection for all the eras. He is in our time and is the shit.

    Hitting those pills again Peter?

  • Despite department policies requiring us to carry badge and weapon off duty I never complied once during my career except court and range qualifications. After retirement as a retired officer I can carry as long as I have my ID, again I didn't.


    One evening last year I was departing Wal Mart with my wife when I was confronted by a b/m who asked me "Do you remember me"? I stated "no" and continued to walk to my vehicle. He then stated "You need to know me, as you and that dog put me in prison for three years"! I turned and stated if you have a problem with me let's settle it now as I didn't want to back down. Later I realized it was stupid of me to have said this.


    He advised me you better remember me as I will remember your sorry ass! The next morning I went on base and purchased a Kimber compact 45 and now carry it every place I go.


    As I always took my Police dogs with me on/off duty, I thought purchasing one for personal protection (defensive) purposes only, would be in my interest as well, as I don't want to shoot anybody. I was involved in 2 during my career.

  • It's shit when they know you but you don't know them, means they can get close without you realizing there's a threat. Although I'm sure a cop can pick up on subtle cues in a person's appearance and becomes alert quickly enolugh. I have a cop friend that became a detective, he tells me that he's still alert everywhere he goes including off duty. I guess that's one reason to not work in a department that's too close to where you live.
    I don't think you said the wrong thing, at least the guy knows you won't back down so he'll have a fight on his hands, which is a deterrent. You can't get through to such people with any other way but force. Also he probably doesn't know you're retired, and I believe the general thinking is that messing with a cop carries serious consequences. Also people who are seriously intent on doing you harm don't announce it. When they enter confrontations like you described it's to get instant relief for their ego. Either way a being armed and having a dog is a good idea, next best thing to moving.

  • Also people who are seriously intent on doing you harm don't announce it.


    Couldn't agree more Dan


    Sorry to hear that Phil, I still maintain that a good classic breed (dobe, gsd, rott or even mali) will do the trick, the real challenge is to find a good decoy that can help you proof the dog in real life situations. Forget about those youtube vids, think about the situations you want to be ready for and work around those.


    You can't get any safer than with a loaded gun and a good dog IMO (Next to moving as Dan said)