My boy at 2 working

  • A few vids of my 2 year old doing what he loves to do.

    Sorry the quality isnt so great on one of them. It was his first time being sent on a helper who was using something to block the dog. I was happy about his resolve to get to the man but will be working on him going through the hazard rather than finding a way around it.

    rottweiler real courage test - YouTube

  • Thanks Dan, The only time I saw him really pissed is when we were doing the home search in a muzzle. Roger had me show him the decoy with no equipment on in a room with no bite and bring him back to the garage to put the muzzle on. When we were on the stairway to head back upstairs he literally ripped his dew claw out of the socket trying to get the muzzle off. After screaming for a half second and blood everywhere, he still charged up the stairs and hammered the guy for a good minute. I brought him down after and took the muzzle off to send him for a bite in the suit, but in another room. I think he only touched about 3 stairs out of the 20 or so on the way up and launch rite through the door onto the guy. I could see the decoys face was white from the pain even through the suit + the dog was shaking as hard as he possibly could but driving into him at the same time.

    As for Jeori and RK-I absolutely reccomend him. He is still keeping in touch with me and is always there for any help I ask for. I spoke with him for two hours after my last boy had to go work another beat for attitude reasons. We discussed what I liked and didnt like in rotts today. The guy friggin nailed exactly what we talked about with this pup. Medium size, great with kids, not too much drive, high self confidence and courage like I have never seen. Like all working male rottweilers he is very dominant but lives a very sturctured, strict life. I know how to live with a dog like this so its not a big deal. Jeori knows his lines very well and for sure would be able to meet your needs if you're looking.

    Next time he gets really fired up I'll video and post.

    BTW-He got a helper in the stomach on Sunday for a half second and the guy was throwing up from the pain right away. Helper error, not mine thank God! This little guy bites ridiculous hard.

  • He's sitting in the low to mid 90's right now. Last check was 91lbs and from experience he is far from filling out yet. He's a very compact 26 inches tall but not too long. I like to keep my dogs lean and exercise them very intensely-1 to 2 hours daily with varied exercise programs ranging from long walks, weighted running, spring pole, sprinting, and swimming. My opinion is that a rott should not exceed 110lbs unless it is a freak of nature. The largest athletic dog I ever saw was Proximo Germanenstolz and he was a legit 116 and a freak of a dog. That's too much for my liking. One year from now he'll probably top out at 95-97lbs which is almost exactly my preference-100 lbs is my ideal. Some say that at 2 years they are done but I have had 4 I raised from pup to adult hood and everyone of them was skinny until they hit 3 and even 4 before they were fully physically mature.

  • 110lb in good shape is a big dog, but easily within the standard which is up to 28 or 29". Agility is not a big issue for me, big dogs can move plenty fast when they're motivated. I would trade a few pounds for more stamina though. The main thing for me, and I like big dogs, is that when the dog is sitting at heel the side of his head is right at my hand level to pet him. That's just what I like, I'm 6' tall and prefer to avoid stooping down if I can. Training dogs shorter than knee high is a real chore :)

  • hey man, he got some speed compared to the rotts i see, nice call off back to heel position, very snappy. dog looked to have a overall look of happy to be doing the work look. seems intense but clear headed, nice.

    didn't not see the other two vids.

  • When I read Peter's comment I felt I left that out. Very nice obedience, with the dog looking relaxed when complying with the out command. I'm thinking of contacting Redwood Krest.

    I fixed the vid links.

  • Cheers guys, thank you.

    Peter, just click ont he links and they will take you to youtube where the other vids are posted. There is also one on there of a double call back. Title is "rottweiler total control."

    IMO every protection dog should exhibit this type of cocky disposition when working. He gets off on shit kicking and hurting helpers but does so knowing I fully approve. I swear he learns how to fight better every single session.

    As for the size of dog Dan, I hear you when it comes to leaning over to pet them. I'm 6'1 and I have to ever so slightly lean to my left. My boy is probably small for your liking but Jeori definitely has some very large dogs in his program. Figo vom Grossen Tal is a very larg stud dog he uses often. There's also another Belgian guy who has a group of serious lines that are Kaizerbrunch (Austrian military) and ADRK dogs mixed in the pedigress you could check out. "Vom Hexental" is the kennel name. Look at the video of Charlie von Tannenek-that's a serious dog if I ever saw one man. He would be my second choice if I didnt have such a great experience with Redwood Krest.

  • yeah that is the sh!t, it was not a mistake yr boy is fast. i disregarded the rotts based on what i seen but mebbe i was looking at too small a sample space. the short chain thing in the second vid is not my personal scene but you seem like a cool enough guy.

  • Yes, there are very athletic rotts out there. I have done extensive research on lines and know exactly who is bredding for what these days. There are def decent rotts out there but they are not cheap! In terms of the chain-do you mean the training practice or the bite placement?

  • I understand why you'd want the dog to bite the legs. The chain obviously works to force the dog to bite the legs. But I would focus on the dog's mindset, which IMO ideally should be to bite whatever is first presented to it. Meaning if the dog is pissed off, and the decoy tries to kick it, the dog should bite the leg. I understand some dogs insist on going high, and disregard the leg. I would then ask myself whether the dog is going high because he wants to deal directly with the man inside the suit, or if it's doing so because he's learned to target high through prey biting and doesn't perceive the leg as a threat, only an obstacle in the way to get to where he really wants to bite.

    If it's the former I wouldn't bother changing anything, with this kind of dog he'll eventually bite where he needs to when he feels threatened by the body part. If it's the latter I would work on the dog's mindset, let him understand the threat is real and that he needs to bite wherever he can. Rather than attempt to change the location of the preferred prey bite.

    The chain seems more like a sport training technique. I don't have a problem with it other than when the decoy is giving this kind of bite, to be careful and not put too much stress on the dog's neck by pulling up. I would wager though that done this way, when the dog is given free reign ie. off the chain, he will always revert to biting high again.

  • Good points by you Dan. The goal was to get him a certain level of comffort going low. In fact, the chain did not serve its purpose as he resorted back to targeting high whenever and wherever he can in most cases. Occasionally he will go for the legs from behind but from the front he likes to go high and sees the leg as an obstacle to do so. He's so quick in practical sense it doesnt make a difference but I'll have to get Roger to help me figure this one out.

  • IMO he'll have to hurt the dog to piss it off enough to bite anywhere, then you'll see. Problem is when a dog is this strong in prey, it's distasteful to put enough hurting on him to make him change his mind. For this the whip is great, really bothers the dog but causes no damage. This is the problem with some high prey driven rotts, if you don't introduce the defense in correct doses right from the beginning, it will take too much stimulation later. I understand that the safe and for most dogs the correct way, is with a lot of prey stimulation. But with some dogs you really have to be careful not to overdo it. All it may take is just frustrating the dog and not giving it a bite for a session or two, in the meanwhile really irritating it with the whip. Then when he gets a leg bite he'll get a lot of satisfaction from it, and may come to like it.

  • i did not think of using the chain as a target developing device as i have never used one for anything. i thought it was like those guys that use it to eliminate the dog from escaping and torment it untill it realises the only escape is to fight. personally that is not how i would train a dog. but clearly you have a different use for the chain. i was surprised when i first saw it as yr dog has so much go forward i thought WTF.

    i know in sport some people want the leg bite over anything else, and some it forearm only. in a ppd context not sure if target training would be counterproductive should no discrimination on target be the goal??

  • Very solid stuff Dan. I will definitely take that course of action with him. My feeling is that a couple of no bite sessions combined with a few whacks from the whip will do the trick with this dog.

    I get where you're coming from Peter-cool. The reason I want him to work the legs is to get him comfterable biting that part of the body and holding on IF that was the ony target available IE: A man jumping on a car roof, into a car window, hiding in a corner with his back to the dog, or hoping over a fence to get away. If he always gets to go high when biting then he may not fully commit if he ever faces with one of the mentioned situations. This dog just pulls the helper forward into him with his first bite and then launches hard into the arm pit or inside fore arm so quickly on the second. I have done a window escape bite where he had to jump and hang on-he did pretty well but not to my satifaction which is why I need to work on this aspect with him.

  • I think you gave the answer right there Brody. If those are the situations that would be most conducive to a leg bite, then you should simply set them up. Problem is dangling a leg off a tree in a safe way so that the dog will not take the foot. The foot is a very painful place to get bit.

    With regards to what I said earlier, please be aware that it's delicate work to be done by a very experienced decoy. As you don't want to push the dog so far that it will get discouraged. I think Roger will know how to do it. The whole thing surprises me some though, because I know Roger used to put a lot of defense in the dogs from the get go, he is very good at it. On the other hand I see that Roger is not the decoy. With not so experienced decoys, looking to play it safe, agitation often is predominantly in prey. Especially when there are a lot of bites.

  • i have heard some dutch guys saying a big failing with the US training is focussing too much on upper body, they put a lot of empahsis on the back of the leg, apparently takes the fight out of a man real quick??

  • Curious Dan, you would not employ your dog after an escaping man? What if he was running to his vehicle to get a weapon? This is my reason for training this skill. I want my dog to eliminate the threat completely and most people who unexpectedly come across a dog will run to better equip themselves for the fight. Would a dog trained to apprehend the person from behind to eliminate this possibility not be of use in a ppd?I respect your take on this subject. Oh, and yes, this helper is very green but he is doing his best with Rogers instruction. A good decoy would certainly make a huge difference-especially with this dog.