Posts by Joelm

    Nice looking dog you have there. Just a question on his social skills with humans and other animals?


    Thanks for the compliment! He is fairly social with humans, he is a bit cautious and aloof with strangers. As for animals he is alright with normally, he has a dominant personality but he is very possessive of his food. So i do have to separate him when he or any other dog is eating.

    I think the content of his initial posts, demonstrated his knowledge is at least at such point that he understands a real protection dog is not as easy to find as a breeder making promises. Also you've already made similar statements before. While I agree to an extent, simply because of the difficulty of sifting through the overwhelming quantity of unsuitable prospects, in essence your idea is incorrect.Having not owned a suspicious dog before, you underestimate what a pain in the ass it is to live with such a dog, and the potential for liability. Another point that you're misinformed about is evidenced by your statement here You will not be able to "tell the dog otherwise", you will not be able to tell him to "be friends", you will never stop him from viewing EVERYONE as a threat no matter what the situation or how much socialization you do. It's genetically hard coded in such a dog. All you'll be able to do is put him away religiously every time someone comes over that you don't want bit. Even with the best intentions accidents happen, doors get left open and someone walks in unexpectedly. Unless it's a compound dog you're after, it's better to have the safety margin of a clear thinking dog. Of course if such a dog is not available, and your need for protection is dire (which is not often the case), then you may take the chance with the suspicious dog. 20 years ago I'd tell you to get a neapolitan mastiff bitch. Fierce dogs with strangers, soft as mush with master and family, scary looking buggers and sometimes have very dark almost black coats. But I don't know the state of that breed today. Maybe look at Caucas shepherds.


    Thank you for all the info Dan, I may not know from experience of owning this type of dog, but i do understand the risks as far as liability and pain in the ass that comes with it. The things I wasnt sure about or concerned with id figure id ask and you def answered my questions and more and ultimately gave me a place to start and look into with the breed rec.

    Get an adult Mal or GSD or Dutch Sheperd that's trained and tested.
    You'll spend a lifetime looking for a real Rott.
    AmStaffs, Dogos, Corsos. Pits...are basically junk when it comes to real protection.


    Hey Jim could you elaborate on the time it takes looking for a real rott, as now it days I see it almost takes a lifetime to find what you want in any breed more less just rotts. And also why the breeds you mentioned are junk as far as protection goes?

    Can't really say. If ANYONE came in the yard with us, first thing she would do is grab her ball and want to play. If we weren't with them, and i mean standing there with them, whole different ball game. If we took her places, she was fine. And also, if you came in to the front door, then walked out the back door onto the patio where she was always laying, you would probably be fine as well, but if you came up the driveway in a car or not without one of us, you belonged to her. She gave my elderly aunt 18 stitches in her right forearm. Cassie didnt discriminate. She was just THAT territorial.


    That my friend, is a pain in the ass sometimes.


    Yes I can see how that would be a pain in the ass, if you dont mind me asking with the incident with your aunt was cassie left unattended at that moment or was she unprovoked etc?


    Forget breed Peter? If you need to retrieve ducks from the water when it's -10 degrees outside, you look for a lab, not a mutt or GSD. If you need a dog to pull a sled in sub zero conditions and survive on half a fish a day you need a husky not a mutt or a poodle. The temperament and drive required for protection work runs in certain blood lines, you have to do your homework and find them. Granted it's very difficult to do nowadays because of the sheer quantity of show dogs and casual breeding.


    Suspicion is not the same as sharpness, and sharpness is not the same as nervousness. You can have a suspicious hard dog, you can have a sharp hard dog, but you can't have a nervous hard dog.


    Joelm, you're better off/safer starting with a dog not quite as suspicious as you think you need, rather instilling the suspicion and aggression with training. You need to find the right person for this job. You will never ever get this done with a club decoy.


    Thanks for the advice Dan, I know this is the safer route..what do you think the effect would be as to getting the 'not as suspicious dog' and instilling the suspicion and aggression as supposed to take a 'more suspicious dog' and instilling the socialization piece?

    Some people prefer other breeds such as Rotties, Dobbies, dogos, corsos, bullies, mals, etc., but there really isn't anything that any of those dog owners can say negatively about GSD's other than they shed alot :) There is a reason why PD's use GSDs and Mals. Kinda like the perfect packages for what they need. They are smart, tenacious, well balanced (generally speaking, some aren't but thats why you know what youre buying before you buy it) and a willingness to work and protect. Ive owned GSDs since i was 3yrs old. Ive owned other dogs too but ive always had a GSD as well. Right now, ive got a GSD and an Amstaff.


    And like Brody said, a dog that views EVERYONE but its family as a threat is a big pain in the ass. My last shepherd, Cassie, was 105lbs of whoop ass. She bit 9 people. None of which were actual treats. Some were extended family from out of town. Whenever we had people over at the house and there was a chance for them to go into her invisible fence, we had to put her up. We had beware of dog signs ALL over our property. I wish she was a lot more sociable than she was. A dog who is well balanced and well trained will know the difference between friend and foe MOST of the time, there are always exceptions and grounds for accidents. Majority of the people in the PPD/sport/working dog world have GSDs.


    If you want to chat, my number is 252 414 6571.


    Yeah dave we will def chat and would love to see the ones you mentioned in action. Coming from Cassie..granted she viewed everyone as a threat, do you think that no degree of socialization wouldve changed that and that it was just strictly her mentality and that was that?

    Welcome Joel,


    I've been thinking seriously about a DA for my next dog-have been in contact with Uselis of La Cocha (original ranch where the breed was created). I am 5 years or so off but I like to plan well in advance.


    Where did you get your pup from? Did you see his parents or one of them do bite work? I'm very keen on watching your pups development-he has excellent structure.


    No its good to do research, and I will def shed some light and my take on the breed as of so far if you guys would like to know. I got my pup from Debonair Dogos and I actually had one of my friends go there who lives in CA as I am in VA and take a look at the dogs . Did not actually put the parents on a sleeve, but watched the mentality of them and it had him impressed.


    What i have seen from the pup so far is solid nerves, I havent found anything that he has been scared of yet. He is a very bold and inquisitive thing and when things happen on his turf ie the yard everything stops and is concentrated on that person or thing.


    These dogs are mainly used as catch dogs, and are very prey driven. My gf has a little chihuahua and it is clearly evident.


    The little work I have done with him so far..just mainly with rags tugs and puppy sleeves he shows great potential as he is in his prey. On tie outs hes going after the rag and hitting the puppy sleeve, but what I have noticed is the sessions do have to be short to keep his interest and we may need to work on his stamina in that state...The reason why I say that state is he tends to lose interest and then lays down if the session goes on too long, but take him on runs or bike rides and he just keeps going and going.


    He is also 4 months and is not aware of his size and is very floppy, which I don't know if there is anything I can do to help with..so far I have been playing tug of war with him and after we go back and forth if he is getting ready to try to take it to a ground game, I keep him positioned up and let him win. I don't know if in reality this helps or if it is something that just comes as he matures.


    If anyone else is interested dont hesitate to pm me, I tried to keep it brief and honest. I will of course post more pics and vids as we go along. Any thoughts/tips/concerns would always be great.


    No i completely understand Brodie. Now you are right and I agree with you in saying that most dogs that have that behavior are more fear biters or are taken as not being sure of themselves and unstable... I am not looking for the dog to be a loose cannon and to bite every single person, but to be very aloof but not to the point where it prevents him from enjoying himself, but also that he is not completely comfortable and almost handicaps his reaction. Im just saying I will take the dog that will keep an eye on guests and friends in the house even after they are accepted into the house and not turn their back once they realized they are welcomed.


    I understand it is a lot of dog to handle, and yes I have handled a few rotts and gsd that possessed that intensity that has done bitework and yes they are hard to handle, I cannot say that i am a trainer or decoy and say that I work with them day in and out everyday but for my situation I believe it will work. If it was a dog in which we had or planning on having kids or that we took to petsmart or work or in public quite frequently then I would not want this type of dog. It would be too much of a liability.


    The OB and protection would be required no matter what going into it, and one thing you mentioned is having a bond with the dog I agree with the feeling of belonging is one the heavily contributes to it, but I think training in all different aspects is a huge bonding time and a time where there is trust given and expected. I would also think that if the dog is truly suited for this kind of work, the training is also an outlet for him.


    None the less i did enjoy reading your post and your take on a couple things and appreciate you checking and explaining the other end of owning this type of dog, but it has been something that I have been thinking about for awhile and awaiting until the right moment to get one.


    Dave I will def check in with you about them and see as I do not mind the drive. Also if anything just to pick your brain as I have never really been a huge gsd guy. I def respect the breed and what they do none the less, but as of recently I have found myself looking at some and reading into them a bit more.


    First off, I would like to say thank you guys for all the info and welcomes into the forum and other threads so far. This is def one of the best forums I have been on as when you have topics that there are so many views on..and you are on the internet they dont go very well alot of the time.


    Peter, i'm with you as far forget breed and go with the individual pup, but I was more so asking to see a common trend if possible as there are a plenty of breeds that I do not know much about and I figure the more info I get beforehand will def play a large role...Im not sure if that makes sense. Its more of a place to start and also to hear more opinions.

    So I know this topic has probably been discussed but I do care to get more tailored recommendations to my particular situation and what I am looking for in a PPD. When I see this discussion go on, it usually because there are what I will say as 'limiting' requirements that I do not necessarily have. ie good with kids, pretty social as they will be in public a lot etc.


    I am looking for a man stopper. One that also has the size to eliminate the threat and to use at their advantage. As I was saying at the top, it is just me and my girlfriend so no need to worry about kids. I do not mind the social aggression as I want one that sees everyone outside of us two as a potential threat unless I say otherwise...I feel as though the obedience factor will be able to be utilized when friends/guests come over and we have a huge yard and besides taking him on walks/runs around the neighborhood or rides in the car.


    -The few things I do have is acceptable of other dogs in the pack. I plan on purchasing this dog preferably as a trained young adult. As I do not want to babysit another in addition to my 4 month dogo.


    -Also I would also like a dog with a black or dark coat for an added advantage at night. Plus I have already an all white dog.


    I have looked at rotts or corso and usually when there is a disregard for 'family protection' I know filas come up a lot. Just reading around I know Dan had posted a video of the rottie that had what seemed to be an intense aggression switch. I love rotties very much the only problem is I have seen very little with with that kind of ability. I will try to find the vid and post it but I think that's all I have for now. Any info would be great or even links to breeders etc would be appreciated. Thanks in advance guys.

    how old is the dogo? i would not sweat the sport, basic work is the same for all sport or PP imo, joining a club is yr best bet, you might have to BS them and say you want to compete and just make use of the helper then leave.


    i would never do that, ever :nono:


    He is 4 months.. you are right same foundation work at this point. Ive just been doing more prey driven activities and confidence building... Well that just seems so wrong to mislead someone like that..I cant imagine anyone really doing that lol :D

    Little bit of a drive but check out the black sheep PSA club. They are located in Carrsville. They dont only do psa but they specialize in psa. Maybe that would be something you would be interested in. Here is the facebook link. https://www.facebook.com/BlackSheepK9


    Thanks for the link Dave, I will check them out! I do enjoy watching the sport, hoping they can maybe point me in the right direction for PP hopefully. I know there's also Tidewater Schutzhund Club as well relatively in the area.

    Welcome from greenville, nc. Spent some time in VA beach. Dated a navy chick when i was in the USAF. She was in VA beach. Love Dogo's. You need to upload them from a pic host like photobucket.


    Yeah Va beach is huge military town..I think i'm prob one of the 5 who's not lol. He is my first dogo, have had pits and been around rotts and love them all!

    Thanks Peter for the warm welcome I am actually trying to post pics and was wondering if there was a way to use files directly from your comp instead of uploading from photobucket or other file sharing site and using hyperlink.

    Just wanted to say hey guys, new to the forum and just wanted to introduce myself and my 4 month old Dogo Argentino who we plan on doing some personal protection with him for the house. (Will post pics up soon) Have a researched a bit about particular dogs that have working capability and that have caught my interest. Still learning lots when it comes down to the training aspect, but hoping to learn a lot of info here and just hang out with other folks that have similar interests and hobbies.