Hey Phil, good story =) Good to know there are still some trainers working with Koehler. I'm not a big fan of doing OB the same day I do agitation, even less if it's right after the agitation session, keep in mind that Koehler OB is pretty demanding on the dog and it might be too much to cram both in one day. A video would be awesome if you get the chance
Hew Teuto, welcome to the group =)
What line of work are u in? Have you considered just getting a protection dog fitted for cold weather instead of creating a new one? What about a GSD? Germans used them a lot in WWII and they proved to be good in cold weather. There is also the Caucasian Ovcharka or Caucasian shepherd dog if you size is your concern. Are you gonna use the dog for protection only or will it be performing other tasks? Hunting maybe?
Hello guys, long time no see uh>?
Well, that's a new one for me too, I must give points for the idea xD. I agree with Dan, a dog with the proper instinct and a good training won't mind once the sleeve is replaced by real flesh. This arm shaped dildo wont do much for your program if you have already selected a decent dog. Also concerns me that the taste of rubber could be unpleasant for the pouch. I recommend sticking with the regular old hidden sleeve and a decent decoy if you want some extra "realism".
On a side note, what happened to the forum dan>? it's totally different...
Dafuq? Isnt that, animal cruelty? Where does this "trainers" come from? This is one of the worst videos i've seen... I hope someone reports him to the authorities -_-!
A 12 week puppy of any working breed is STILL a puppy, there is no need to submit him to that level of stress and worst of all, it's the very OWNER who is doing the aggression... I strongly suggest you UNfollow that retard...
K9-1 has an extensive videography on its Youtube channel and most of the time I like their videos but this was not the case. I understand where they are going with this "exercise" but it strikes me as another case of "reinventing the wheel".
The video asks for a 2yr old dog with an established bond with the trainer. If your future PPD is already 2 yrs old, you have dedicated enough time bonding that he, at least, considers you "part of the pack" and DOESN'T go ballistic when the decoy starts pounding on you 15 feets from him... you might as well start looking for a new dog because that pouch is a lost case. I understand that the video is trying to "amp" the dog but this was clearly a bad casting. Most of the folk are gonna watch this and get the idea that their dog can become the next Rin Tin Tin if enough stress is applied to it.
I do this kind of exercises but only to polish a confident dog with a well established bite. I understand that sometimes context can be forgotten and the result is a dog with very limited ability to make decisions under live scenarios but this is not the way to get such context. An untrained or even worse, an untested dog has no business in an "aggression simulation". Bad or at least misleading video if you ask me.
PD: It saddens me what passes for a ppd this days
Phil we have YouTube now, people don't read books anymore.
There's a sad truth.
Nowadays a couple of youtube vids will turn you into an expert on any matter
K9 Personal Protection by Resi Gerritsen is a book i've been trying to read for a while now. Some of the new members of the club have read it and, apparently, it's a modern and effective take on the whole PPD subject. Now, if you ask me... If it aint broke dont change it. I'll always try Koehler first and only switch if I truly believe the dog will do better with a different approach and even then I'll consider first that the dog wasn't a fit candidate to begin with.
PS: Hope you post some pics of the new pup soon Phil :thumbsup2:
Also people who are seriously intent on doing you harm don't announce it.
Couldn't agree more Dan
Sorry to hear that Phil, I still maintain that a good classic breed (dobe, gsd, rott or even mali) will do the trick, the real challenge is to find a good decoy that can help you proof the dog in real life situations. Forget about those youtube vids, think about the situations you want to be ready for and work around those.
You can't get any safer than with a loaded gun and a good dog IMO (Next to moving as Dan said)
I agree with Pete, the vids on youtube are just bait for "likes". Most of the time they don't serve a real purpose, just like IPO it is entertainment for the layman. Also a good marketing strategy...
While you can't recondition a PPD to perform PSD tasks, am pretty sure you could easily turn a good PSD into a decent PPD Phil.
I would recommend getting a good dog with proven parents and siblings (if you have to teach the dog to bark at strangers or weird noises then it is NOT a good dog), reading koehler again and training the old school way You won't end up with a flashy dog like the IPO or the youtube ones but it WILL DO the job and that's what matters in the end. Now about the breed... well that's a whole different debate
Phil, what do you mean with "threat to my safety" ?
I don't like the flashy OB but am glad there are still decent Pitt breeders out there, those seem to be excellent dogs.
PS: It is truly an annoying soundtrack XD
Wow, that is some introduction to hard surface tracking Phil :thumbsup2:
It,s been probably 10 yrs since we trained a tracking dog for the local police. My old man had an old yellow and green koehler tracking book. Nowadays I usually do tracking as a hobby or just to keep the dog busy but it is always done on grass.
Just to clarify, I know 3 types of tracking dogs, "find and bite" are used when in pursuit of a dangerous suspect and should always be trained with the bite as reward. Bark and hold dogs are used by rescue teams and can be trained with toys, treats and praise. Finally the dogs used for illegal materials (drugs, gunpowder, explosives, etc...) can be trained also with toys and treats.
I do remember training on concrete but It was done without much ceremony. Once the dog was performing well on grass we gradually switched to concrete then empty streets, houses and finally live scenarios. Of course tracking is not my "forte"
Phil what do you mean with hard surface? Concrete? anything that's not grass?
Hey Ryan, nice vids overall.
Too long for my liking, a big molossoid can get exhausted pretty fast, continued agitation for 3 minutes seems a little bit harsh. I tend to keep it under 2 mins tops.
Big crown seems a little excessive too, I usually work with a max of 3 decoys when training for a civil dog, a PSD who is actually gonna do CROWD CONTROL is another story...
The muzzle seems to inhibit the dog, he knows he isn't getting a bite and disengages quite fast... am not a big fan of the muzzle -_-! If you are gonna muzzle the dog then don't wear the bite suit?
Yes, the dog seems a little confused but he stays confident through the whole ordeal
Big improvement with the muzzle and one decoy, he stays engaged longer
From minute 1:30 to min 2 bites seem to be slightly superficial and he lets go quite easily but always goes for a second bite, I don't know if this is characteristic of the breed but I guess it would be effective in a real scenario even though I prefer a big and lasting bite
At the end, semicircle of dogs with several decoys... NAH that's just dumb, work with your dog individually if possible. Add one or 2 extra dogs if you want to proof it but avoid circus like activities like those :thumbsup2:
Those are two sides of the coin. On one hand I don't think is a good idea to force the dog onto 3 handlers while he is still training. KMODT takes a toll on the dog both physically and mentally so it should be kept as simple as possible.
On the other hand, close family should be able to interact with the dog and at least be able to give "cease or proceed" commands like the NO or the OK. this could be left for the later stages of the training or if possible for after the training is done.
If your fear is that the dog won't respond to them or will respond with aggression after you've started protection training, good socialization and hierarchization (those doesn't need real OB) will ensure a good response from the dog. Let the wife and kids play with the pooch when he is not trainning, let them feed the dog, let them spend time with the dog always maintaining the hierarchy.
Hey Ryan, I spent some time in Mercedes back in the day and, if am not remembering wrong, it was HOT AS HELL -_-! So a short haired, long muzzled, not too heavy dog might be a good idea... a good dobe would fit that bill but finding one is close to impossible nowadays.
Hahahaha I cannot wrap my head around that exercise. In what situation would you need 4 unleashed dogs working on tandem? The guy does KNPV so maybe it was practice for an exhibition? -_-!
Boar hunting is popular in Bolivia although not as popular as in Argentina but Ive had the chance to do it a couple of times. Lately Ive been hearing a lot about this story:
Its a guy who was boar hunting and punched a kangaroo who was treathening his dog, I dont want to go into the whole "I would have done this or that" argument but id like to know about the legality of boar hunting in australia... maybe Pete can give us a hand? Also, what dogs do you use there to hunt? Am guessing there are not many Argentinian dogos =P
Yep, the guy seems to know his etology xD I agree with pete on not allowing inter-pack fighting just because am kinda squeamish on that subject but as an educational vid its really usefull. Ill try to check the rest of the vids too if I can find the time
Narration is a little too convoluted for my liking but it is indeed an interesting video Dan, the chain should had been removed beforehand if you ask me
One of my favourite quotes from my mentor is "Working dogs are not pets" since its something that gets overlooked so often. Last week I got a video from one of the members of my former bite club. Am gonna post the link from the facebook page where this video is at:
Hopefully you'll be able to play it
Some key points should be pointed out here
1.- While I firmly believe kids should be socialized with dogs and the other way around, this is not the way. Kids should be taught respect and appreciation for the dogs and should never be allowed to see the dog as a TOY
2.- Children lack the ability to understand the dangers of working with these type of dogs, hell, even adults can get overconfident and forget what damage a 100Lb GSD can cause.
3.- A true working PSD or even a IPO dog should understand that kids are forbidden when it comes to "bitework". What happens when an unsupervised kid tries to play with the dog and the former sees this as just another "session"?
Overall these seems like a huge mistake, work of an irresponsible parent who is probably just trying to show of in front of his drinking buddies -_-!
Pete post the link for the kennel if u can =)
Nowadays there is no such thing as impartial media but either way you don't need to be a genius to know that what they did was wrong... safety of the dogs should always be taken in account, they are not machines and for most handlers they are as valuable as a family member