Posts by Working malinois

    Glad to hear I'm normal! I don't get that a whole bunch. ;)

    You don't train with any rewards? Or a better question would be, and it is a serious question, how do you reward your dog?

    I'm not sure where this disconnect comes from with handlers that have an issue with the ball? Do people dangle the ball like a carrot on a stick in front of their dog's nose and the dog works for the carrot only?

    The ball is one piece of the puzzle, one tool, just as the leash and various types of collars are tools.

    We do modify our testing and training based on the age, maturity and the individual dog. I start young dogs a little slower, but we end up at the same place in the time frame. We just adjust the training to fit the dog.

    Even a precocious Malinois or German Shepherd at 10 months is still a very young dog. I do take that into account and watch the dog and the stress level it goes through. Most 10 month old dogs deep down are really not as mature as an 18 month dog and handle stress differently, even the high drive Malinois.

    Respectfully, I differ with that. Obedience is obedience, control is control. I can walk my dogs down the street and they will not react to other dogs or any other stimuli if I say "heel."

    I don't know what the alternative is? My dogs can remain happy and be completely under my control. I do it daily with some pretty drivey dogs and I like them in drive. :)

    We shouldn't confuse "ball drive" with obedience and control, one is just the stepping stone to achieve the other.

    The department I was at with the puppy program has a very affluent donor that purchased the pups and is helping to fund the program. A lot of K-9 units have FB pages and strong community support or at least a few wealthy benefactors. We have some very generous folks that support our program with equipment and supplies for the dogs.

    It is not for every department or handler that is for sure. But, starting with a nice strong pup and raising it the way you want is pretty nice.

    We have started with dogs as young as 10 months old and they have turned out to be fantastic patrol dogs when finished.

    I suppose you could be right.

    But, high end obedience while maintaining drive, power and correct work is good in any venue. Obedience is the basis for everything, bite work and control, handling even tracking has an obedience component. A good handler and a good dog are similar in almost any venue, whether it is work or sport. Having some experience in both, I can see the benefits to the real world working dog.

    I do not need absolute precision and focused heeling for my partner, but I do need the control. Guys like Ivan show us what is possible to achieve.

    I hope this isn't a sport vs work thread, but most sport dog handlers can out their dogs better than most real working dog guys. I do make a distinction between a real working dog such as a Police K-9 or MWD vs the PP people out there. Hope that doesn't chap anyone's hide. In my experience the vast majority of PP dog types are not doing more than sport stuff anyway. The training is not much different than PSA or even IPO.

    I will slowly step away form the keyboard as I can only imagine the folks with the "PP" dogs getting irate. I'm sure their is a small group of serious people with excellent trainers really doing PP correctly. I have only seen or spoken to a few. The rest, well not so much. This post is not designed to offend anyone, as I think working a dog in any venue is great stuff. I just see a lot of folks doing stuff and thinking they are really training a "PP" dog, when in reality it is sport based stuff they are doing.

    There are Police Departments in the US that raise and train puppies as replacements for their current Patrol dogs. I recently visited one PD with an excellent program for raising and training puppies. They had a 1/2 dozen Malinios puppies that were about 6 months old. The dogs were tracking, doing bite work and OB. Trained and raised in a KNPV style system. There are also quite a few handlers in the US that raise and train their own dogs from pups. This is nothing new and has been going on for quite some time.

    Working two dogs while on patrol is problematic. If you work for a busy agency then you will be far too busy to work the new dog during your shift. There are also issues with certification and court testimony with a dog in training in the US. It is simply not very practical to do in the US. Perhaps it works in other countries?

    I am not opposed to the idea of phasing a new dog in while the experienced dog is ready to retire. it is a very good idea to get the new dog early and have time to bond and develop a level of trust and respect before the formal training starts.

    In regards to testing, I can pretty objectively test a dog and make a decision in a couple of hours. We rarely wash dogs out and 3 days would be an awesome luxury to have when it comes to picking a good dog.

    Phil, I agree with you and I'm glad that your dogs did the job they did. Thank you for the work that you do / did.

    Yeah Ivan is a top sport mal trainer, would love to meet him.

    Yup, he is a top sport trainer and also breeds some seriously nice Malinois. I have a couple of friends that regularly travel to Florida to train with him. They are also into sport, competing and breed and work Malinois.

    There is a lot of good stuff to be learned from sport people like Ivan, even if you don't do sport with your dogs.

    Out is a matter of respect - especially if you the handler/owner are the one with the toy or sleeve the dog is holding on relentlessly. If above suggestions fail. Try this:
    Say OUT, give him 3 seconds ( every time exactly) and if he is not outing correct him on pinch 4x hard and fast into the direction of the sleeve on your arm or into the toy. If he does not out repeat another 4 x and increase hardness of the correction. Repeat until he outs. Then immediately reward him with more play.
    To people who think that corrections are too hard I'll tell that if the dog is not outing then he obviously does not think so. If he outs then i stop corrections. Thus it is up to the dog . ;) 
    I have learned this from Ivan Balabanov.

    Do you train with Ivan regularly or do you attend his seminars? Ivan is a top notch trainer.

    I'm thinking that there are other methods for teaching the out of toy than prong corrections. I'm sure it can be done in a much easier fashion than pronging the dog 4 times? Over a toy that seems a bit harsh? I agree on a sleeve or decoy for a dog that already knows what out means. Not to teach the out the out command.

    Well, I still love German Shepherds and have a couple, one is for sport and detection work the other is retired. I really appreciate a good working German Shepherd, or any dog for that matter that can work. It seems for what I want / need to do the Malinois is good for the job.

    I train and work dogs and love a really good working dog, breed, color and size are all secondary.

    I'm a working dog handler and currently handle a Belgian Malinois. I've been involved in sport and working German Shepherds for a few years. Recently switched to the dark side and went all in on a malinois. I've had some great German Shepherds over the years, but good, hard, working German Shepherds are becoming increasingly difficult to find for my needs. I'm very happy with the switch and hope to be able to discuss working dogs here.

    Best regards to all.