Posts by Noah Metzger

    Thanks Nick, that last shot is exactly what I was interested in. The dog pictured has the good, level rear end that a healthy dog should have. Exactly how I like my dogs built.


    Very nice looking dogs! :thumbsup2:


    Do many private citizens own these dogs or are they reserved more for the state agencies?

    Beatiful heads on those dogs! You can certainly see the wolf influence in the face. Could you put up some shots of their rear ends? I'd like to see what direction they have gone concerning it.


    Is this type of shepherd known for any hip issues?


    What are they typically used for?

    Nick it really depends on the dogs training. My female would have the intruder on the floor in about 10 pieces in a matter of minutes, regardless of what kind of food or treats he was swinging around. If a dog is taught food refusal then if the training is worth half a shi* then time should not matter.


    I'd love to see this idea tested on a group of dogs and reported on... I'd like to know what perctentage of "normal" dogs would succumb to the bribery...


    I do imagine a dog could be trained beyond this loophole however...

    The number one thing I look at when judging an adult is build, then movement. If they aren't built correctly, I'm not interested. Do they move fluidly when allowed to run freely or do they clumsily trod along... If they pass that first phase, then I like to watch for any natural instinct in their own environment...


    What do they notice when left alone?... Do they alert when a squirrel runs across the yard, or do they ignore it? Do they here the rock hit the far tree line that I threw when they weren't looking, or did it go un-noticed.


    Basically, I look for natural instinct, does the animal have any undeveloped prey drive I might be able to work with.


    Something else I tend to judge a dog by... "would I be afraid if this dog were to be set upon me?" ... more often than not, if a dog makes it past my initial screening process', this is the type of dog that results.


    When I go to see this dog, I will certainly let you know what I think of him

    Found this dog in Jacksonville, FL. Close enough for me to drive to investigate further. I like the look of him from this picture, enough to go look at him in person... just wanted to know if any of you all could give me any tips.



    This is a stud prospect for my Shiner dog by the way.... trainability/ drive is what I'm hoping to add.


    Thanks! Noah Metzger

    I'd need a set up like Chimera has, but I don't think I'd have a problem turning on any of my dogs to grab a man.... these dogs are pretty easy to fire up, especially in a pack situation. If anther dog commits first, they won't hesitate to join in...


    I still encounter situations like this with my older dogs once in a great while when I have a young dog tie into a wild cow in the woods... it doesn't matter how big the bull is, once one dog committs, it's a caught bull and I'll have to physically pull every last dog off him.:angry5:


    Maybe one of these days I'll find a training facility close to me I can test this theory with...

    Very well built dog for sure. I'd be interested in his trainability as well. Is he more of a "meathead" like a lot of the bull breeds or is he more of a thinking dog?

    I had the priveledge of spending some time with this dog years ago... have wanted blood from him ever since...


    http://stonecroftcanecorso.com/Timber.htm


    This individual dog was one of the most impressive "mastiff type" dogs I've ever seen, his athleticism was just remarkable. It's truly hard to find dogs this size with his type of movement.... as close to "the movement of a lion after a gazelle" as I can describe.


    Does anyone have any opinions of this line?

    In real life...have you ever been in a situation that you thought was dangerous?


    The question you ask could be "self prosecuting" should anyone here have to actually protect themself with force, as they could come off as "looking for an excuse to ____ somoene." that said, I have been in a situation that I considered dangerous, and I can say I will not consider a criminals well being in exchange for the health of myself or a loved one. If a criminal doesn't want to get hurt, they should find honest work. It isn't about revenge or justice...it is only about me and my loved ones staying safe.



    Now we're getting to what I'm interested about...


    I realize, with all the loose cannons out there, we as dog men don't want a plethora of "man eaters" out there, but I can see where they would have there place.


    ... maybe not with the police departments...(I doubt a bunch of mangled/dead suspects would look well for the K-9 department:rolleyes1:) ... however... if "I" were that police officer going into a "life or death situation"... I would want the kill dog over the arm dog.


    Personally, I am working toward this type of animal, although they are being focused on feral hogs as of now, I have no doubt I could re-direct them towards men if/or when necessary.


    Like I said, "gameness is gameness" whether it be dog, hog, or man. As long as the dog is bred to have trainability and is handled by proficient and ethical handlers, I see no reason not to develop the "type".


    I should note how important I feel it is to guard these genetics once produced... this type of animal is truly a trainers animal and must be treated like the potentially deadly weapon that they are. Anything less would just give the law reason to take away all that you've worked for.


    Lee, my e-mail is noahmetzger@aol.com

    "Protection dog forum"


    How many utilitarian forms of the protection dog are there really?


    Just from my novice observations:


    -Guard dogs/Sentry dogs( what I view as "eat your ass alive dogs") Gulag, drug dealers, etc.


    -K-9 police "find and apprehend dogs" (grab assaillent by the forearm and shake....)


    -Deterent dogs (not trained to engage a man, but "could" if provoked)


    -"Scary looking" dogs ("big/scary looking dogs" with little, if any, physical drive)




    So, to my original thought, what are "high end" trainers looking for... an "arm shaker" or a man killer?

    First of all, I know nothing about "protection work" other than what I've learned from my own hunting dogs and how they defend my home.


    I have always discouraged the instinct to "catch" people... but you all have me wondering what monster I might be able to create.... given reason:)


    So, what are the traits of the ideal "man stopper" or what ever you want to call it?


    How much does "handle" (the ability to turn the dog "off") play into this ideal?


    Respectfully, Noah Metzger

    From the pictures I've seen of him, that's a fine dog.


    Could you put some conformation shots of him up?


    Shots of his parents and what they did?


    How big is he?

    A bit off topic Aaron, but when's the last time you went shooting? I've ignored my "fish count" in the deep freeze as long as I can... I'm gonna have to line up a "meat trip" here in the very near future ;):D