Posts by Protection Dog Club


    No need to be disrespectful.

    My chows are the best trained chows I have seen.
    And I have seen many, trained with choke collars, prong... these dogs were out of control.

    Kohlers method does NOT work on chows.
    Only positive reinforcement works.
    And I challenge you to train a chow using KMODT and show us the vid.

    As for what I meant by 1st session, and so you do not drag the readers into the misunderstanding of what I said by being disrespectful, all I wanted to teach my dog during these months was not to pull and walk by my side.

    And I got improvement on this matter. Its not a simple walk. It is a walk with brutal corrections if the dog does not look at you.

    The dog is severely punished when he does not look at you. He is choked, dragged on the floor, getting an unexpected snap on the neck to keep him aware of the owners movement.
    And do not tell me this is not brutal, let me put a choke collar around your neck and wait for your to check out a hot chick and then I snap you to the ground rolling on your back, and keep dragging you until you stand up on your own.

    And this does NOT work on chows. KMODT is a total failure with chows.

    And I repeat my challenge to you. Train 1 chow using this book, and show us the result, and if you succeed I will accept your insults.

    Update: I failed. (not completely though)

    Hello everyone,

    After almost 3 months, i came to the conclusion that i will not be able to train this dog properly and get the perfect results i wanted.
    And to top it all, i recently contacted a very reputable trainer and asked him to train my dog for basic protection work and he refused based on this:

    1- a chow is not fit for the job
    2- you cannot give a chow confidence in bite work because he is already a very aggressive dog and he would become very dangerous
    3- a chow is not fit for the job.

    Now back to the Koehler's method debate we had, i tried to work on his focus using his method and i followed the instructions shown in the video posted by dan, step by step.
    And here are the results:

    1- the exercise worked really quick and i got good results from the 1st session, but this was not consistent. he kept losing focus each day and i had to repeat the exercise over and over every day.
    And on each day he kept being very badly pulled and dragged on the floor and rolling on his back.
    So i finally stopped because that was getting excessive and i was starting to get worried about hurting him.
    And apparently he wasn't learning that this is what i ALWAYS want him to do.

    But i saw a major improvement (i'd say about 70%) and that improvement has now become the norm.
    Now, he is still a puller but not as much, he stays by my side most of the time, and whenever he pulls he does it slightly and not with much intensity.
    So controlling and stopping him has become much easier. Yet he still needs slight corrections on every walk.
    These slight corrections are something i tried with him and they seemed to work really well:

    whenever he starts to walk infront of me, i tighten the leash so that he stops moving, and i keep walking forward while keeping him in place.
    Once i pass him i loosen the leash and let him walk again.
    After 2 or 3 times, he understands that to keep moving forward he has to stay by my side. and he stays by my side on a 10 feet loose leash till we get back home.

    All in all, i am happy with the result, and i admit that this method is excellent, but my training with this particular dog was not excellent, and thats why i said that i failed.

    Regarding guarding and defense drive, this particular dog doesnt seem until now to have a high drive for this. And he has not shown any sign of aggression either.
    I think this dog is the 1/10 whom they describe by saying that he is very friendly and loves people.
    He just barks at strange movements near the house, and that is just at night. During the day he is silent. (good enough...)

    So, after all of this, i got a second one :D 
    I loved the breed so i got him a friend before getting a malinois sometime in the future.

    The 2nd chow i got is a female, and unlike the 1st purchase, i made this one by choosing the specific dog out of many.
    She has the typical chow chow character (that is what i actually wanted in my 1st dog)
    She is aloof with strangers and standoffish, she has a very strong character and until now she seems fearless, yet she is extremely trainable with surprisingly lots of focus.

    I think i got it right this time, this new pup is what i actually wanted.

    Thank you for all the useful information you gave me, and this is helping me alot with the new pup.


    Thanks Dan,

    That was the thread I saw yesterday but it seems that the link does not work on a mobile phone.

    Now its working on my pc and currently download the vid.

    Oh and Dan, I was checking the forum yesterday and I saw a thread where you posted a link to a video of Koehler's training...

    Can you post the link again? That would be great if I can see the techniques in action...

    If I get a 1 or 2/10 protection that would be more than enough for me...
    I have no experience after all... and I thought I could channel his well known aggressive behavior into something useful.

    I was surprised to see that he was very friendly after all I read about the breed.

    I got a chow because I needed a quiet dog because I live in an environment where excessive barking isnt quite acceptable.
    As I chose him for the size since I cannot get a bigger dog.

    I had to chose between an akita and a chow, due to their temperament and quiteness.. but I went for the chow because he was medium sized.

    As for the rawhide stick, Peter you are correct.. I was give a pack of these by the vet when he was teething, but I saw that my dog got diarrhea a couple of times and I suppose these stick were the problem. So I replaced them with peanut butter and chiken sticks during his teething period...

    Thank you for the advice

    Thanks Dan,

    I do not know about the history of my dog.. because the breeder is in europe and most dogs in my country are imported. So I have nothing but to hope my dog will become naturally territorial, and I will try to help him with training.

    - Peter you are right... milan is abusive and I never used the alpha roll or breaking the spirit of my dog by dominating him.
    As I skipped the kicking part he does at every episode, just like the hanging and all other abusive things.

    By I tried to use the light tap with the hand to snap him out of his excitement.

    And of course it didnt work because obviously I did not beat the **** out of my dog... [emoji14]

    In general I used his logic with the tools of victoria stilwell and other stuff I read online...
    Trying to give a positive training as much as I can with disregard to the alpha role, since scientists are publishing their studies regarding this matter and they are differentiating between a dog and a wolf regarding the hierarchy of the pack and their behavior...

    Im a noob guys.. takes it easy on me [emoji12] Looks like you are going all cesar milan on me in this thread [emoji1]

    Sergio thank you for being understanding [emoji1]

    I added a photo of him as my avatar. He was around 4 months in that pic.

    I will keep you updated after I try training by the book :D

    Thanks Dan, I will try Koehler's book for control.

    By ruining the character I mean making him loveable and loving to anyone even strangers.

    Thats what all the tv shows are about these days.
    Making your guardian dog stealable... thats my opinion from my what I have observed until now...

    I might be wrong though.

    I am still waiting for my pup suspicious and guarding instinct to kick in..

    And doing all the training work in the meantime..

    Dan I actually read these stories online.

    But that is not where I am 'regurgitating' my info from.

    I read parts of the book especially the last part where he talks about the problems. The same for the beginning where he differenciates between an attack dog and a natural guard dog.

    And that is where I stopped and bought a chow. Basing my purchase partially on his opinion regarding the breed, and after understanding my own needs, and that is mainly an instinctively natural guard dog.

    I understand your offensive approach regarding this matter, especially after seeing everyone affected by this 'new age' dog training methods. Which in my opinion failed when it comes to owning a guard dog.

    I believe the mumbo jumbo online ruined my dog's character and turned him into a lovey dovey loving plush toy.

    And that is why I resorted to this forum, to get some guidance from the experienced with having a strong character, confident, and aggressively guarding canine.

    I came here to get help rebuilding my dog's natural confident aggressive character, and having TOTAL control over his behavior.

    Dan as I mentioned I have read some of the book not all of it..

    And about the harsh things in the book I remember drowning the dog for digging. As in putting his face in water till he almost suffocates, and kneeing him if he jumps on you...

    I am not an expert here and I donot know if positive training is sufficient to replace these corrections..

    I will try to look again for a solution to over excitement in the book and leash pulling.

    Hello again Peter,

    unfortunately there are no clubs where I live...

    And he seems like you said, excited to discover the outside world, but it has been 3 months now that I take him out every day for about an hour to walk and sniff around...

    I couldnt take him out before that time because the vet said he should take all his vaccinations first...

    I have a pure rough coat chow, looks half fluffy half old style chow. And until now, he hasnt shown any aggressive or territorial instinct...

    Only barking at unfamiliar sounds from time to time.. but not a guardian yet.

    Hello Sergio :D

    By cesar milan's way I mean giving him a leash correction.. or tapping him on the ribs to snap him out of his excitement. But that only works for a fraction of a second....

    As for koehler I have his book Koehler's method, and I read some of it but it sounded very harsh...

    I am using a regular belt leather leash.. and the treats are doggy treats made of salmon and a mix of other commercial stuff... but he loves them.

    I only reward him a fraction of a second after correctly doing what he is told.

    He is trained to: sit, down, up, stay, heal, come, leave it, back off, and a few other.

    He follows the commands immediately from the 1st command.

    But whenever distractions are around.... he is another dog [emoji1]

    Hello Peter,

    Well I gave him all basic obedience training and he took it really well since he was 2.5 months old, he even stays still for around 2mins(while I leave him alone) on command, but that is inside familiar or enclosed indoor areas.

    Whenever he is outside he stops listening completely. His excitement makes him not see or even listen to me at all. I cannot get him to focus on me at all.
    He even ignores the treats he loves and refuses to take any.

    His recall is 0 outdoors. If I let him off leash he will just go and never return.

    And as I mentioned the leash, his leash manners started to become really bad lately, as he pulls non stop.

    And lastly.. whenever the front door is open.. he wants to be the first out.

    I have tried working on these issues using cesar milans methods, but they all failed.

    He is positively trained, and still intact. Not planning to neuter him.

    Hello everyone,

    I am a 1st time dog owner, and against all the online recommendations, I got a chow.

    He is 7 months old now, and as far as I have seen from him, he is quite easy to train, extremely friendly, yet stubborn and i dont have solid control over him in distracting situations.

    As most of you know, this breed is very difficult to train, especially for a novice like myself.
    And since I expect him to be a guard dog as his breed is advertised to be,, i am planning on starting to work on his protection abilities, and besides the protection skills, I am looking for help regarding his obedience, and that is in distracting environments mainly.

    Hopefully I will find some experienced chow owners among you.

    owned by a chow

    The bitch is going to be bred with or without Sten as the sire, so I might just as well go ahead as planned.

    Whine all you like, it makes no difference to me and Sten.:D

    I spent over 30 years breeding hybrid falcons for the sole purpose of hunting Houbara, I have much experience of purposeful breeding.

    PS, I even worked out how to produce just females. :)

    They are being bred for a purpose. The purpose is that the Rottweilers owner wants to breed pups of his choosing. He will keep one for himself, and there is no shortage of farm homes for the surplus.
    Try as I may I can't think of a downside, all seems as cool as can possibly be.

    If he want's to breed some more next year I might well take a pup myself.