Posts by Jake Q

    i didn't say my dog does flashy obedience - i said my dog does obedience in drive... he has incentive to work for me and applying less corrections to a dog because he would rather stay with me than be bothered by a distraction is not harsher to the dog... he gets corrected for innapropriate behavior anyway whether doing obedience or not - he just needs less corrections when he is doing obedience because he *wants* to be there... he will work around large groups of people and i can walk him right past the decoy or have the decoy walk past him and he knows the decoy is to be left alone...


    if you reward something every time the dog does it, and then suddenly stop rewarding it, the behavior will extinguish quickly... but if you make the reward intermittent then the behavior will remain strong because the dog lives in the hope of "next time, next time", he doesn't give up altogether simply because he missed a single reward...


    i can do anything with my dogs, touch all over them, wash them, hold them upside-down, etc and none of my current dogs have ever placed a tooth on me in anger... we would be having serious words if they did... it wouldn't be the first time i've had to choke a dog out and i'm not afraid of doing it if i need to...


    i don't use a purely positive training system nor do i train solely with corrections - i use positive and motivational training where i can but corrections also factor into it once the dog knows what is expected of it and has chosen to blow me off - i just don't use corrections to *teach* a new exercise if i can avoid it...


    everyone is going to manage their dogs differently because everyone has different lifestyles and needs - there is no one size fits all because not everyone is going to keep their dog in a kennel and not everyone will let the dog into the house and some people have more than one dog and sometimes not all the dogs get along...


    if you are not willing to allow others to explain how they train and manage their dogs then you may as well call this place Dan's Koehler Forum and be done with it........

    once i have switched over to a tug reward with my guys ALL my obedience ends in play... the dogs learn that they have to do what i want them to first but they ENJOY their obedience because they are doing it in drive and for a reward instead of out of fear of a correction... my youngest dog right now comes and glues himself to my leg in a fuss position just begging me to be allowed to work with me when all i want him to do is go out in the yard and take a shit... i end up having to work him for a minute or two and then releasing him again or he just won't go away... half the time when he does this i don't even need to have a toy on me for a reward he is happy to just jump all over me and get a big pat because the reward of being in drive for those few minutes plus some praise is enough...

    a muzzle with no biting allowed will only serve to INCREASE his frustration... you are better off working him on a decoy, use a soft-ish sleeve if you are worried, and don't let him hit into the decoy... either have him backtied and have the decoy come into him to present the bite, or grab his collar with your hands and place him on the bite, that way there is no impact force from hitting the decoy...


    make sure the decoy is aware that he is not to jerk the dog around or go too hard on him, but if he is playing tug strongly and not bothered in doing so then i would not put him in a muzzle and risk injuring him again from an impact...

    with enough training you could probably teach both excercises on different commands... one for find them and bite their arse and one for find them but no touchy... it would be a lot of work though...


    admittedly the dog i speak of is my little show pony who won't bite for real, but i can send him onto a passive decoy with one command, or for a bark and hold with another, so long as there isn't too much movement from the decoy... we've not done this in a search situation but i can send him from about 50yds away to do one or the other... a stronger dog who wants the fight with a decoy (my guy is just having a big game of tug, even with the bite suit) might be harder to train, but it'd be possible... none of my dogs who would bite or have bitten for real know a bark and hold... but then our work situation doesn't really require one...



    a lot of the military dogs also know two different searches, one for people straight off (bite them if they can reach them, bark like crazy if not) and then straight back in again to search for explo, with a passive indication...

    oh dude, i wish i could import a dog for $3500... sadly, i am not in the US, and quarantine here in Oz is a killer... i'd probably be looking at several thousand $$ alone for customs and vetinary charges :/

    perhaps because outing off the sleeve and actually returning to the handler are different things? just taking a guess... he's a nice dog, i love to see a rott working, wish there were more good ones out there, so hard to find here : (

    Yes the bark and hold is the most revealing about the dog's state of mind.


    yep, and so many people / clubs are moving to a silent out because they don't want to lose a few points from the dog bumping the sleeve during the B&H >_<

    just remember that off-leash control starts with on-leash control, or you will get someone bit... and your dog WILL bite someone, Pete...


    edit to add: i know you might think it's all fun and games but you will run out of decoys real quick if they get chewed up too often, or even at all...

    if you trust the handler and they are consistent with the commands that you already use, personally i don't see a problem with it, others might...


    you can possibly tire him out by doing search work, just simple stuff like throwing his ball into long grass or snow and having him find it... works his little brain and will tire him much quicker than plain old fetch where he can see the ball to retrieve it...


    i don't have much more advice as i've not been in your situation, but i wish you luck with trying to keep a malinois amused for 2 months!

    the way the "multiple attackers" was presented the dog didnt have much choice but to go for the decoy as the others fell back a little as they got close to the dog and the decoy was the one approaching the dog the fastest... it'd be interesting to see how a dog did with more than one actual decoy... would they just hang onto the one guy or would they drop off and grab the other if they were to be hit, etc?


    there were a couple dogs who didn't really seem to want to actually bite, but fsck me, i'd still not want one of them grabbing me and being in my face like that! would still be a definite deterrent!

    that was a pretty awesome vid... though i'm with Dan, the music did get kinda annoying...


    Pete, they fix the line up high so the dog can't get tangled... if the dog is going to flip it's going to flip no matter how high or low the line is - it's all about how they throw themselves out there... but i am guessing there is less chance of the dog flipping than there is of severe leg injuries due to entanglment...


    and that decoy has balls of steel!

    thanks for updating us Brian! a lot of forums will lock old threads but as this place is fairly small and quieter than most i guess Dan leaves them open as some valuable contributions can still be made to old discussions...


    glad your dogs are working out as LGD for you! if you do any further training with them please let us know how they go, i'm sure everyone here would be interested to know!

    i crate most of mine but one gets tethered... i use a leather leash and he still manages from time to time to wrap himself up in it... he's never tethered when i am not home though (he is either out with me or in the trailer) and the times he has wrapped himself up have been because he's excited about something i'm doing and i'm aware of it so i make sure i pay adequate attention to him and untangle him when needed...


    personally i think crates are the safer option but if your boy is much calmer on a tether then stick with that for a while!

    Dan beat me to recommending the RCMP's stuff - they have one of the best systems in the world... just about everything else i have done in regards to SAR and tracking has been under hands-on tutelage from experienced handlers - i've got no idea what 'system' they use, but what they have shown me works...


    "the other forum" you just joined - which shall remain nameless here - has some *very* experienced SAR handlers, they would probably be able to name some better stuff in video or book format for you, or possibly even suggest a nearby group to train with... and they generally hold the same opinion i do - that too much obedience will hinder your efforts at SAR training...

    There is always more than one way to skin a cat.


    exactly. Koehler is not "the only" dog training method out there... if you want to use it and it works for you, fine, go for your life... i am just saying it may hamper your efforts at successful SAR training, because that IS an area where i have had some experience...